The Choir Room Podcast
This podcast exists to promote and encourage two long-time traditions in our society that seem to be dwindling…The Choir and Corporate Singing. We hope to revive the excitement and joy experienced with singing in a choir, as well as inform and educate the listener on all things singing, and all things choir related.
A weekly podcast featuring discussion and interviews with choir directors, choir members, and other guests representing church choirs, college and university choirs, community choirs, show and theatre choirs, composer of choir music, and other.
Segments include tips and instruction from skilled and professional disciplines within the choir community covering topics such as choir culture and community, choir directing, vocal training, ear training, sight reading, and more. A monthly virtual live audience episode allows the listener to engage with hosts and guests during instructional and Q&A segments via the live recording, chat, email, on various social media platforms.
A production of Metromusic & Arts, Inc.
- www.metromusic-arts.com
- thechoirroom@metromusic-arts.com
- mail@mmertomusic-arts.cm
The Choir Room Podcast
Hearing the Harmony: The Hymn 'It Is Well With My Soul', Diversity in Choir, and the Joy of Choir Sundays at Gracepoint Gospel Fellowship.
Step into the vibrant Choir Room where the rich tapestry of song and spirit comes to life. This week, my co-hosts Dorian Johnson, Mietta Stancil-Farrar, and I, Greg Thomas, as we uncover the poignant history of the hymn "It Is Well With My Soul" and then followed by a live rendition by the enchanting Sarai Negron-Ingold. Mietta brings us the CRQ and we delve into the conversation of recruitment for a community choir.
With personal anecdotes, we delve into the transformative power of choir singing and the sense of community it fosters. From the unique perspective of our blind singer, Ed, to the cultural diversity that shapes the spiritual expression within this group, we celebrate the collective voices that resonate through the choir in the walls of Gracepoint Gospel Fellowship in New City, NY.
The Choir Room resonates with tales of personal journeys and the shared experiences that draw us to the power of voices united in harmony. We discuss the balance of personal freedom and collective message delivery in worship, and how the evolution of choral direction has shifted from stringent conformity to a liberating platform for individual interpretation. As we explore the multifaceted nature of singing, we tap into the intuitive performance dynamics and the profound impact it has on the mental, physical, and emotional spheres of our lives.
Our heartfelt gratitude goes out to the choir and worship team, whose dedication creates an invigorating space for all who seek solace in song. If our stories of faith, diversity, and musical passion resonate with you, we invite you to connect with us and join next week for another session of harmony and storytelling in the Choir Room. Reach out to us with your thoughts at TheChoirRoom@MetroMusic-Arts.com, where your voice becomes a part of our ever-growing chorus.
Perpetuating and Promoting the Christian and Positive Idea Through the Medium of Music and Other Arts.
Welcome to the Choir Room. This is episode 38 of the Choir Room Podcast.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Choir Room. I'm Greg Thomas, your host, and I will be joined by my co-hosts, dorian Johnson Welcome to the Choir Room and Mietta Stancil-Farrar. This podcast exists to promote and encourage two longtime traditions in our society that seem to be dwindling away, and that is choir and corporate singing. We hope to revive the excitement and joy experienced with singing in a choir, as well as inform and educate the listener on all things singing and all things choir. This podcast is a production of Metro Music and Arts, whose purpose is to perpetuate and promote the Christian and positive idea through the medium of music and other arts. Now, if you haven't done so already, we ask and encourage you to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, as it is available on pretty much every platform, and be sure to like and share when you subscribe. And don't forget that you can participate in the podcast by sending your questions and comments to thechoirroomatvetromusic-artscom. Today is a special podcast with some special friends, but Dorian is coming first with our Hymn of the Week.
Speaker 2:Thanks, greg. This week's Hymn of the Week is it Is Well. This hymn is truly a classic of the faith, and not only for the hymn itself but also for the background of the hymn's writer and the occasion for the hymn's writing. Horatio Gates Spafford was a lawyer and Presbyterian church elder who lived in Chicago in the mid-1800s. He was the senior partner in a large law firm and an investor in real estate north of Chicago. In October 1871, the Great Fire of Chicago destroyed much in the city, including killing approximately 300 people, destroying roughly three square miles of the city and leaving approximately 100,000 residents homeless. And in that fire most of Spafford's real estate investments were destroyed.
Speaker 2:Two years after the fire, the family planned a trip to England where they would hear their friend DL Moody preached. He was a family friend and Spafford did not join his wife and four daughters on the trip because he needed to stay in Chicago on business. On November 22nd 1873, while crossing the Atlantic, the ship carrying Spafford's wife and four daughters sunk, killing 226 people, including all four Spafford's daughters. His wife Anna survived the sinking and upon arriving in Cardiff, well, she sent a telegram to Spafford that read Saved Alone. Shortly afterwards, spafford traveled to meet his grieving wife in Wales and as the ship passed near the place where his daughters died, he was inspired to write it Is Well With my Soul. The tune written by Philip Bliss, himself a hymn writer, was named after the ship on which Spafford's daughters died and if you look in any hymnal you will see that is the tune that this hymn is traditionally sung to.
Speaker 2:The hymns first one and a half verses focus on the varying states of life, whether they are good times where peace, like a river, attends or flows our way, or challenging times when sorrows like sea bellows roll or Satan's buffeting or antagonizing us, or trials are coming at us. But as the hymn writer says, we have been taught to say in all of these things that it is well with our soul. And in the last two and a half verses we learn why we can say throughout all of the variations of life, all of the circumstances of life, we can indeed say it as well with our souls. In the last half of the second verse we sing that Christ hath regarded my helpless estate and hath shed his own blood for my soul. Because of the pity shown by Christ to we who were helpless, we sing of the power of Christ's death and his taking on himself all of the sin of the believer, past, present and future, as he died and paid the penalty, and as many of the classic hymns we have studied do.
Speaker 2:The last verse points us to glory. A day that the believer indeed looks forward to, a day that the believer indeed looks forward to. Hence the request in that last verse for that day, that great day, to come with haste, that day when the clouds will be rolled back, when the Lord shall descend with the sound of the trump and the faith shall be made sight While the unbeliever seeks to hide. On that day, the believer knows that on that day, their salvation will be complete and indeed it will be well with the soul of that believer for all of eternity.
Speaker 2:So, despite whether your times are what you would regard as good, peace flowing towards you as a river, or whether your times are regarded as trying or difficult, do you know your helpless estate that Christ pitied and came to earth to save? Do you know that the blood of Christ, applied to the life of the sinner, brings that sinner into right relationship with God? And do you look forward to the day of Christ's return? And can you say, in thinking about all of these things. Can you declare that it is well? It is well with my soul.
Speaker 3:With my soul, hades is well.
Speaker 1:Hades is well with my soul. What an amazing classic hymn and what an amazing moment led by Sarai Negron, now known as Sarai Negron Ingold. We know her as Sarah, and it's about time we have Sarah here in the choir room. Miera has our CRQ, sarah, and it's about time we have Sarah here in the choir room. Welcome to the choir. Mietta has our CRQ.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Greg. Here is our CRQ for this week. What are some ways we can recruit more people to our community choir? What are some ways that we can recruit more people to our community choir? Now I'm reading this and I'm trying to figure out the type of music. That's what comes to my mind. What type of music you're singing in this community choir, Because it could be a community choir of show tunes. It could be a community choir.
Speaker 1:Well, they're doing arrangements for Medell's album, right. It could be well they're doing arrangements of a from a dale's album, right so we don't really have that.
Speaker 3:So whoever um, uh wrote in or sent this question, would be helpful to explain what kind of music and specific specifically that you are, are singing. Um, community choirs are awesome. I have a community choir. I have a gospel community choir, though, so of course, our music is centered around the gospel, and so recruiting members for that is a little different than recruiting members for a community choir. You may not have as many rules, restrictions or that type of thing for them. It may be easier. Some of the ways that you could possibly do it what we and we talked about this a couple of days ago about a choir call. You can do that and that's putting you know, putting out, looking for singers, looking for sopranos, looking for altos, looking for tenors, looking for bass. You know a flyer, you know stream it somewhere saying that you know.
Speaker 1:Did you say flyer?
Speaker 3:Flyer I did.
Speaker 5:I just dated myself, don't do it.
Speaker 3:Don't do that, don't do that, don't do that.
Speaker 1:You can still do a flyer, but then get it out on social media.
Speaker 2:Take a picture of it.
Speaker 1:It's a digital flyer Bless your heart. Take a picture of it. It's a digital flyer.
Speaker 3:Bless your heart.
Speaker 1:A digital flyer Flyer poster, Flyer poster and a classified ad right, Right, right, exactly. I was just played out just a few minutes ago In the newspaper. I just ate.
Speaker 3:I dated myself terribly oh my gosh. Okay, that's the last use of flyer for me. I'm not saying anything.
Speaker 1:We've done our share of flyers in the day. Yeah, yeah exactly A whole lot of them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, put out a social media blast. How about that?
Speaker 1:Is that better? Okay, there we go.
Speaker 3:You know, trying to get voices. You can do it that way, you know. You can go in your community. You can go in some of the schools and see what the town is like in some of the schools in your area. There are a few ways that you can.
Speaker 1:I think that's a good point. Though If it's a community choir, which is what they say, then you got to start with your community. So maybe social media is not always the best, because social media the whole world was. We'll get to see technically. But if you're looking to attract people to your choir from a specific community because their reach has a, you know, a limited reach, then, yeah, you start with with the community, and I think the old word of mouth nothing travels faster uh well, we used to say that.
Speaker 1:But word of mouth is still digital these days, no flyers needed, yeah. So if you do a digital place card or a digital flyer or whatever you want to call it today, then you need to encourage the choir members. It's my suggestion to also get involved digitally and that they are sharing it or sending it to people in their sphere of domain and I think you'll likely reach more people, because singers know singers. I mean, that's just how it works. Singers know singers. They always know somebody, just like musicians know other musicians. Start with the ones who are already in the choir, but you've got to give them something to distribute. You can't just tell them, hey, go, start recruiting. That doesn't work. So you have to give them that. You have to do the work and give them something to distribute and then encourage them to make it as easy as possible.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you can use a QR code and make it even easier. They can see the flyer, but nobody wants to actually pick up a phone and call the number on the flyer. But if it's a QR code which you can get easy today, they can scan that right there with their device. If it's an email blast, then they can click the email and it takes them directly to either a webpage, or directly to a signup page, or directly to a video that shows the choir. It can be a personal video greeting. There's so many ways to do it and on the digital platform, I think that would make it a lot easier. So so, yeah, I think singers, no singers, you start with that and then, like you said, start within your own community. It's work.
Speaker 3:Work. You start with that and then like you said, start within your own community. It's work, work, dorian. Exactly it's work, yeah.
Speaker 1:A few months ago, we mentioned that we would be conducting what we call rehearsal sit-ins or just sit-ins, and the purpose of these sit-ins is to simply bring you some best practices from choir rehearsals and choir directors from across the country, and some of those again will be church choirs, high school choirs, college and university choirs and, of course, community and show choirs wherever we have access, and there's nothing specific that determines whether or not we record a rehearsal or we just conduct the podcast on location. Now, some of these sit-in podcasts will include both clips from the rehearsal and maybe an interview with choir members and the choir director. Now, again, the sit-in is to bring you best practices. Now, when I say best practices, these are practices that are perhaps uncommon in normal rehearsals some things that you can implement in your rehearsal or perhaps things that you're already doing and that you can improve on, and vice versa. Maybe we get to sit in your rehearsal and bring some of your practices to the ears of other choir directors and choir members. Now perhaps you feel your choir director or your choir has something that they can share that's unique to your group. We'd love to hear from you and perhaps we'll be able to arrange a sit-in with myself or Dorian or Mietta, or maybe all of us.
Speaker 1:For the next few weeks we're going to be focusing on church choirs and we've had an opportunity to talk to a few people in the New York, new Jersey, connecticut, pennsylvania area representing several different churches. Now these are sit-ins that were conducted separately, so they are not together today but over the next few weeks again, you'll be hearing from them. Today we're going to New City, new York. Now we didn't get to sit in on their rehearsal but we did talk to eight to 10 of those choir and worship team members and you're gonna hear from them. Right now the choir room is on location at Grace Point Gospel Fellowship. All right, we are here at Grace Point with some of the Grace Point Choir and so glad to have all of you here.
Speaker 1:Good evening everybody. Good evening, all right. Their choir director, their worship leader, our good friend and brother, chris Cruz, what up, and we'll talk about Chris later. He and I have a history together and so tonight we're going to have a conversation with choir, with some of the worship teams and choir members, and the first question obviously is a very general question, but yet very specific why choir? Why choir for you. You could have been participated in other areas of ministry. You chose choir, so let's start with you. Why choir for you? And tell us your name, tell us your role here. Let our audience know who you are.
Speaker 7:Hi, my name is Jennifer. I am one of the worship leaders here at Grace Point. I've been serving with the worship team for about five years and I think about why choir? That's actually where I started off. I do I sound matching the voices of others? How do I lock in? How do I listen to those that are singing next to me? So that way, when we sing, we sound as one collective voice. So that's something that I like the most about choir.
Speaker 1:So when you say you started in choir, did you start in choir here?
Speaker 7:I actually started in choirs previously. So growing up all my life in Rockland, I sang in part of my school choir, all county area, all state. Even at NYU, where I went to, I was part of the gospel choir there, and so choirs have just been something that's been a part of my life and something that I will always just hold dear the experience Wonderful.
Speaker 1:Anybody else why choir for you? Thanks, Jennifer.
Speaker 6:My name's Angelo. Actually, I didn't choose choir, it chose me in this room. When we started out with cantata, my wife and daughter were in it and they would you know. It was like a six month process. So we listened to all the tracks, the music, and I did that for three years, bringing them here, listened to the songs for six months in the car, memorizing everything. So one year Gladys says why don't you join the choir? I mean cantata, you're already here, you know everything about this. I said, all right, I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 7:She goes what are you?
Speaker 6:I said I don't understand the question. She goes what are you? I said I don't understand the question. She goes you're a tenor bass. I said again I still don't understand the question. So this is how naive I was to it. But she goes you're a tenor. And from there on I was hooked. I didn't realize how you're drawn to people now and it's like this is awesome. Now I feel like I'm truly part of something really big here and the family we made was some of them 20, 30, 40, 50 people. One year we had and that's six months being with these people twice a week. We have dinners afterwards. So it was such a great bonding and great friendships were formed there. So that's what, what I mean. I didn't choose it on purpose, I kind of fell into it.
Speaker 6:And I'm like well, why did I wait this long? Because, once I did, I'm like wow, I should have done this a long time ago.
Speaker 1:Cool. Now, when you say you should have done it a long time ago, what did you feel? Because obviously you felt something different once you became a part of it than you felt when you were just a spectator.
Speaker 6:I felt how important it really was. I worshiped really what it does mean, you know, to bond with God and spread his love and all that stuff. And when we look out on our congregation, we are so diverse here I'm like wow this is what heaven's going to look like.
Speaker 6:You know it's not all one color, one race. This is everybody. I'm like this is incredible to see how everybody is praising out there and worshiping. Some are crying, some are laughing. It's just I don't know. I love it. It makes me very connected. Cool, cool, anybody else? White Choir?
Speaker 1:Hi, cool, cool, anybody else?
Speaker 10:White Choir. Hi, my name is Ed White. I am a choir member who is blind, and I actually grew up in a big family and the quartet used to sing at our house, so that was a lot of fun, but part of the fun was eating the snacks that my mom would put out for them after they rehearsed. So I was drawn to quartet singing. Well, you were drawn to snacks, yes and snacks.
Speaker 1:Singing was a byproduct.
Speaker 10:So my career actually is in a business that runs a concession stand, so I'm always around snacks and singing. I can sing while I feel vending machines. So the, the, the rehearsal thing is the work part, you know, and just like playing an instrument. But when you get, when you get to actually do the thing that you have been rehearsing, that is a different feeling than the rehearsal, you know. You get to interact with the people you're singing with. You get to hear the sounds of the people around you to see how they're reacting to what you are doing.
Speaker 1:Okay, yes, so you mentioned the work and then you mentioned the application. I want to come back to that in a minute. You raised your hand Keely. Why choir for you?
Speaker 11:Hi, I'm Keely and, yes, I'm on the worship team and also the choir and my deaconess here Been singing with this church for quite a while. But I did not start out in church. I started in elementary school, junior high and high school singing in the glee club, the choruses. So the technical aspect of singing as one was always stressed, of course, and it was a whole lot of fun, loved it, loved it, loved it. But in my late 20s I accepted the Lord and then began to sing in churches and that was different, because when you're singing in worship team or in the choir, you're worshiping as well as keeping those technical aspects, and so adding that nuance to it was just so lovely. And, like my brother said, when you're looking out at the audience and you see that we're all worshiping together, I mean it's nothing like it, it's just, it's incredible. So that's one of the reasons why I still sing in choirs. Even before I came to grace point, I just kept sticking with it because that aspect of worship embedded in the music was so precious.
Speaker 1:So Ed talked about the work, the, the fruit of your labor, for lack of a better term, Angelo. You talked about the experience that you had between well, that you had first just bringing your wife and daughter in, yes, and then later joining yourself and then asking, saying to yourself, why didn't I do it earlier? Let's dig a little deeper around that tree there. Why didn't you do it earlier? When you all think about what you were doing before you joined choir and even what choir means to you in a minute, because we'll talk about that too what was it or what is it that makes you still want to do this? You got kids. You're adding this extra responsibility to your life. What is it about this group? I mean, if she was missing, would it even matter to you? You see where I'm going. What is it about choir?
Speaker 7:So what kept drawing me to even think about like applying to sing in the choir? I remember when I moved back from college right, I came from having that sense of community. To now I'm at home, I'm learning this new church family and I'm by myself, I feel isolated, and so I think about what drew me to choir was that sense of community. I needed that. I needed someone to help to lean on, someone to help hold me accountable in my walk with the Lord, someone to pour into me. And I found that once I joined choir I got that. I was able to thankfully meet Keely, who really took a liking to me and really encouraged me, and she ended up being my deaconess when I joined the church. And so it was so amazing to be able to glean from my fellow choir members and that's something that kept me wanting to serve. Every time that notification hit, I'm like I want to serve, I want to serve. I want to serve not just to pour my gifts unto the Lord, but also to surround myself with community.
Speaker 1:Do you really like her? I mean, I was asking Keely, she didn't say anything. She didn't say anything. I love. I love Because a lot of because community is that you have to like each other and ultimately you have to love each other. But you needed that community, and that community solidified something that was or filled a void, perhaps that was missing when she left school, and that was. She said it, it was family and it was community. It's fellowship, what else is it?
Speaker 8:Anybody. I am Daina, and to me, additionally to a sense of community, it was also the spiritual growth that comes along with being in the choir.
Speaker 1:So and how does that happen? How does the spiritual growth happen in choir?
Speaker 8:well, for me it's like the work that I have to put in. I have to, like we always say, we can't bring somebody someplace that we've never been before so to do that you have to stay on the word and always have a song in your heart, so that that's it beautiful tina um.
Speaker 4:For me I think it was the joy like angelo, I didn't I wasn't looking to join the choir, it kind of fell on me one of my grace point.
Speaker 5:Sisters chased me down for like almost three years to join the choir and I was like I was a new Christian and when the worship team was up there and we were singing, that's really how I found my path to the Lord through worship, through song. So she chased me for like three years to join the choir. I finally joined it and I found my relationship with God through music.
Speaker 5:I grew up as a dancer, so music has always been very big to me in terms of emotions and growth. I just didn't realize it was like the singing part of it.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 5:But as a new Christian I found my relationship with God. But I didn't understand the community part. So I found how to pray through my music. I find my joy through that, but I also found that finding my joy, the worship became about me and God and not for us and God to present to the church to help people find the same thing that I found. So the discipline part of it is you know, I forget sometimes, because I'm a new Christian, to open up my Bible and read. But when I sing I hear the songs and it's a psalm or something it brings. It always brings me back to help remind me. You know, I'll make a note or I'll make cards on the word and that's really how I'm learning more about the Bible as well.
Speaker 1:That's powerful. You said you were a dancer, so I think we underestimate the power of music in every area of our lives. I think I shared with you in a workshop not long ago. You go to the mall, right, you get into a taxi cab in New York City, you get into a taxi cab anywhere. You go into a grocery store or a department store, there's always music playing. There's a reason for that and there's been big time study on that and the effect of it. But when you go to the mall in particular, it's very specific, it's very strategic, right down to the lumens of the lights in the building to keep you looking for a bag that you don't need to keep you there. Think about it Now if you ever went into a mall and there was no music, I guarantee you your experience would be different. If the lights were all super bright, I guarantee you your experience would be different. So when we talk about it being a spiritual experience and being something that's helping you develop spiritually, that's both of you. That's pretty key.
Speaker 1:So I ask the question then how do you grow in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord through choir? There's got to be another method, obviously, because you can study on your own. But then how do we sing with understanding? How do we do that? How do we go to the next level and not just read the word? But what else is music doing for you? Because obviously, music requires some thought. I mean, singing requires thought. Right, it requires some physical input. Yeah, it definitely creates or stimulates an emotional response. So you got these three things happening. We used to have this commercial. What was the phrase? I used to say it all the time Reading is fundamental. Remember that. How many of you know singing is fun and mental. Think about it. Singing is fun and mental. It requires what? Thinking. Give me an example of why singing requires thinking. In what capacity? Say it again, in what capacity does singing require mental contribution?
Speaker 11:You're memorizing your words, your points, that you have to hit, all of that.
Speaker 1:Words, lyrics, notes, right. What else Is it physical? How is it physical?
Speaker 6:You just can't stand totally still, because all eyes will be on you, uh-huh.
Speaker 1:So it's like you have to, although there's some people who do that. It drives me crazy.
Speaker 12:It depends upon the style of singing. I sing classical. I sang some second grade. I asked you a question a couple of years ago about worship and how do I break through without giving a performance?
Speaker 7:I had to break through it's Holy Spirit.
Speaker 12:But the other day, just for a joke, I have to watch on in an hour and a half I did 8,000 steps. It banged off the service. So, gospel singing is very different than classical. You're rigid. So gospel singing is a very different thing Classical, you're rigid. When I go to Cuba or Peru, I'm doing more in movements and fun, you know kind of dynamic. Where I have classical, you don't move.
Speaker 12:You know, you don't sneeze, you don't itch, you can't blink and it's really a workout. You're a diaphragmatic breather, you're a grip bud, so you kind of yoga positions, things that you do to your body, positions things that you do to your body, and you did it with our workshop, with our hands opening, expanding our chest positioning.
Speaker 1:It's mental, it's physical, is it emotional? Absolutely.
Speaker 5:So let's hear from the dancer and then we'll come back to Jennifer. So we get into some songs sometimes and you can hear your fellow choir singers behind you, and you can hear your fellow choir singers behind you, and sometimes my goosebumps and my hairs will just stand up and you know, I'm like this has to be the Holy Spirit. Or you get this sudden urge to just turn around and hug the person next to you because that moment or when you're hearing the audience sing with you, you're like, oh my Lord, it happened. You know, so it's. I think that's a huge part of it.
Speaker 10:Yeah, you know I like when she said you feel the people singing next to you. You do want to reach out and touch them. You know, I mean I have to stop myself. There are two tenors singing beside me. I want to like sometimes I want to take all three of my hands and just raise them up in the air simultaneously.
Speaker 1:Now, what's wrong with that, Ed? Let me just ask you Maybe not what's wrong with it, but why do you find it?
Speaker 10:prohibited. It doesn't seem like a normal. It's not a normal move that a choir may do, you know, holding their hands and raising them simultaneously. They might hold their hands down together, like this when they're praying, but they don't normally raise their hands up together, you know, as it were, touching and agreeing. You know we're I call us tenor madness, because most groups have men, but the men are normally doing technical things. They're playing instruments but they're not singing most of the time. So that's an oddity. So when you have only three, you really bind yourself together. When one is missing, it's like, oh boy, you know, you feel like you're going to have to step into a leadership role or something you know when it's missing.
Speaker 1:When you introduced yourself, you introduced yourself as Ed, and then you said I'm blind, right, have you? Been blind all your life. Yes, okay, who told you that you can't lift your hands while you're in the choir?
Speaker 10:Well, I think you know. Even as a blind person, you have a sense of what is normal. You know, just like facial expressions. You're not taught them, but you can make facial expressions. If something is bitter, your body knows how to make a bitter face. Or something is sweet or something hurts, your built-in nature knows how to make a smile, for example so.
Speaker 1:So then, at what point? How do you know then that, with your hands by your side, that what you're saying and how you're saying it is enough to communicate the message?
Speaker 10:right? Um, yeah, it's. It's difficult to to know to pick up body language. You know swaying, for example, or are you know everybody stands up at a certain time or stops clapping their hands at a certain time, those things you have to sort of get a sense at. Sometimes someone will tell you we can sit down now, you know sense at and sometimes someone will tell you we can sit down.
Speaker 1:Now you know, well, I'm going to challenge you and if you get in trouble let me know, because Chris won't bother you, he won't. But I've had guys in my choir men, and my tenor section is right in the middle and I think I had about 40 of them, just men and I had guys in my choir tall, big, curly hair, some really big guys and when they got excited, there was nothing that was going to stop them from going like this with each other. I had a football, an NFL football player, in the choir and on one Sunday he got so excited that he turned around and did exactly what you talked about doing hugging somebody. And he turned around and he hugged the big guy, the big, burly guy, and they're in the top row, they can be seen by the world and they're hugging each other in the middle of worship. But it was such a genuine experience. He wasn't trying to draw attention to himself. There was a moment in the worship that just took off for him and he had to feel free that it was okay. We had to, not intentionally, but there was an environment there that said you know what? It's okay to rejoice in the Lord and to lift your hands right and to embrace a brother, if you feel like doing that at the moment.
Speaker 1:Now, obviously, it's like you know, I always say the choir is like FedEx you still got to deliver the package, you know we can shout later, but you got to deliver the package. Get it to the door, you know. Or Amazon, take the picture and then go back to the van and you can shout it out, but you got to deliver the package. And it's the same thing with the choir you can get excited, but you can't lose your focus on delivering the message of the song. And so that's just my challenge to you, ed. If you're between these two guys and I'm assuming that's generally how it is man, if he grabs your hand, go for it. Go for it, because I think you'll be surprised at how much freedom that will send to the congregation, how many more people will be set free and feel like they're free to worship.
Speaker 1:What happens on the platform and I'm not asking you to go crazy, but I'm just saying what happens on the platform. A lot of that is picked up by your congregation and if they feel you're stiff, they're going to listen. Welcome to the choir. Okay, let's get Jennifer and then Tina.
Speaker 7:I was going to say that for me, the emotion comes in when you start singing about how good God is and you start to marvel and bask in the fullness of his glory, and it just brings you to a different place. Also, there will be times where there will be those reflective songs. Let's just say you're singing about the goodness of God and it's like you're singing your testimony out loud and it reminds you of how far God has brought you. It just stirs something in your spirit that at the end of the day, you deliver the package and the job gets done to where you're not so overwhelmed by emotion, to where you lose sight of. I'm on stage and I'm still having to lead the congregation in worship and I think it's beautiful when you have a choir to lean on to, where there'll be times where your heart just gets so overwhelmed that those that are standing next to you are there for you to lean on their shoulder and then for them to carry the sound when your voice starts to falter a bit.
Speaker 1:That's that community.
Speaker 5:Tina, I just wanted to touch a point too. I think it has to do with the direction of the choir as well. I grew up in Catholic church and there was no joy. Singing was not fun. And then I've been to Baptist church and I saw the singing but I just didn't understand. Like what does this catch the spirit and how does Jesus talk to you? I don't understand any of that. I thought people were crazy when they said Jesus told me and I'm like OK.
Speaker 5:And then I came to Grace Point and the choir direction Like when I first got on the choir, we all wore like the same colors on sundays, so it was a little more strict um.
Speaker 5:Right, it was a little more unified, a little more strict um, and we went through a couple of different choir directors and like I feel like the direction that we're in now, although we're a group and it's unified, it's we're still our own people, like we're allowed to sing the songs the way we want them. But I think that some of us stay a little reserved. Like you know, I was told when I first joined the choir this isn't a performance. So you know, you got to remember the people around you don't do anything that the people around you aren't doing. So I feel like we're still, like we're all brand new again. So we all have these things and it's probably and Ed could tell me if I'm wrong, but I think maybe some of these things are coming up a little bit more now because the way that we're worshiping Do you feel like you're more free than you've ever been before?
Speaker 5:Yeah, we're more free with the direction that we're given. Like the direction on how the song is being sung is perfect. It's so everyone understands. I'm not a new. Like again, I'm not a musical person. I don't read music, but when I'm given the direction how the song is going to be sang, I'm like, oh, I can sing it that way, you know, but then I'm allowed to sing it my way. So I think that makes a really big difference. Like Jen said, she gets that song. It hits a chord in her about how good God has been to her and she's like this is me, this is me, and there goes. You know my message to God and he's talking to me, type of situation.
Speaker 1:And now you can catch the spirit. Chris is here. Chris is your worship leader, worship director, choir director. We love this guy. Yes, and you do too, right? Yes, yeah, yeah, go ahead, you can do that. You can, chris. You've been directing this choir now how long.
Speaker 9:It's been like two years now. So I got to Grace Point. I took over as the worship director here in 2022. And so, yeah, it's been two years now and maybe a little after, maybe like four months after I started, I kind of restarted the choir here. They did take a hiatus for a little bit, but it was in the heart of Pastor Daniel and I know it was in the heart of these choir members who have been a part of the choir for so long at Grace Point. And so I say, hey, let's do it, let's start it up.
Speaker 1:How many of you were in the choir before Chris came? All of you, most of you, okay, a lot of churches suffered during COVID. A lot of churches lost their choirs. Some of them gave their choirs up, but we can't blame COVID for everything. So I think you have to have a genuine love for choir and a desire to worship God in song with other people in order to come back to choir. I think, for a lot of churches losing choir, that was an opportunity for people to just say, all right, I'm done. They didn't want to leave before you know, so they got an opportunity to just go back and go to a ballgame, you know, whatever For you, what was the most difficult part of restarting? Because you came, there was no choir, am I right? Yeah, and you had to restart it. It was in the heart of Pastor Daniel, yeah, and now you've got this aggregation of singers yeah.
Speaker 9:You know, I think one of the hardest part was managing expectation. So before there was like a 40, you guys correct me if I'm wrong, it was about 40, 50 person choir here at Grace Point, and so now I have that number in my head, I got to get it back to 40 or 50.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 9:And so numbers kind of get you. But you know, obviously this is something you pray about and God, maybe this isn't the season of 40 or 50.
Speaker 9:Maybe this is the season of 12 to 14 solid choir members Solid yeah, that love the Lord, that have a gift and a touch of God on their lives. And not to talk bad about the other you know can't do math right now but the other choir members that didn't rejoin, but maybe this is what God wanted in order to, you know, kind of get on the other side of COVID.
Speaker 1:I think every choir has to have a core group of dedicated, committed, non-wavering or unwavering people you feel like you have that.
Speaker 9:Oh yeah, I love these guys. I'm not saying this because we're on a podcast.
Speaker 1:You can tell me later. You can tell me who gives you the biggest trouble.
Speaker 9:No, no, I love these guys, love them. They come prepared. More than prepared, they come with a heart of worship. One thing about coming in as the new guy is resistance. Right, I'm not part of the dna here, you know, I'm different, um, but the love and acceptance that I kind of felt here, the openness to kind of say, hey, you know, one of the things we got rid of was tracks or stems. Right, we weren't going to do anything to click tracks or anything like that. Not talking bad against that right.
Speaker 1:Well, let me let me jump in. Did you guys use? You used to use tracks, click track. Did you hear them? Was it going through the monitors to you or did you all wear?
Speaker 11:monitors okay, all right just curious.
Speaker 1:I was just curious how it worked for it, cause I know many churches who do it differently.
Speaker 9:Yeah. So you know, obviously those, that was something that God put on my heart. And again to clarify, not saying it's bad, but for me, god put it on my heart to move away from that. And then the thought is, well, how are they going to receive it? Now I'm going to get a one person choir right.
Speaker 9:Everybody's going to be like be like we out of here, bro, we give us some click tracks, but uh, it wasn't that like it was. It was. It almost seemed like god had already been knitting us together with the same heart, the same focus and goal in mind. Right, the goal isn't um presentation, right, it's. It's inviting the presence of god. Yeah, his presentation, not a performance performance?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. How was it different then, moving from the stability, if you will, of click track to no click track and not knowing what's going to happen next? How did that flow for you all, or was it difficult?
Speaker 11:Prior to the click tracks we had just live music. So, it was kind of like the click tracks came in between and it worked. It was fine.
Speaker 11:But we all know that when you have a live band and you're looking at each other communicating, things can shift at any moment, whereas with a click track sometimes you have that rigidity and you really have to stick with the program until you maybe fade it out and do something. So that was really the only difference. I don't think it really changed so much in terms of the beauty of the worship. The worship was there. It's just that for some musicians at that particular time, that was a point of stability. That was something that they needed, because our, our musicians, are not necessarily professional musicians. Some of them have just learned, you know, within a year or two, and picked up instruments and that sort of thing. However, they were able to lock in. So that enabled some of them to really lock in together.
Speaker 10:Those especially who were learning how to keep time and how to, you know, know, keep the format right um, if I might talk about the, the, the live music and the click track, one thing we found in the in the olden in the last several years was we couldn't hear ourselves singing while we were on the platform. You know, you couldn't hear the person next to you because the music was so loud or the front line was so loud. So we were here, but we weren't as happy as we are now, because you can hear yourselves, we can hear ourselves and that makes a big difference.
Speaker 1:You can hear each other Right, absolutely.
Speaker 7:I would say the biggest shift from using click tracks to not using click tracks as much was, you didn't feel as restrictive worshiping. I believed it just opened this door and this avenue for spontaneous worship to where before it was like you know, the song ended, it ended, you know, and so. So, whatever you were feeling, yeah, just cut it short. And so it really encouraged that if the Lord was just stirring or there was a yearning and in the in the room, um, to go with it and to just kind of lay and stay in that stream, um, and to know that you didn't have the restriction of a track, it was just your voices, the band following wherever it is that the Lord was leading you, and then the choir as well, listening that one time and then latching on. That is, I feel, the that was opened once we stopped using. Welcome to the club.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Pride of Doom. Let me go back to Chris real quick.
Speaker 9:What is the most exciting part about working with this group in particular? Yeah, for me the most exciting part is just like their different personalities. It's kind of like Keely's my auntie, she's auntie here, but just getting to know her. You know her background in music and singing jazz and stuff like that.
Speaker 9:And then just hearing Jen's history with the choir and seeing Diana grow she sang for the first time on the front line last Sunday. Diana Grow, she sang for the first time on the front line last Sunday and so kind of pushing people out into you know, kind of letting them grow, forcing them to grow and kind of seeing them excel. And so I love that, I love, I love learning about these people, I love growing with them, I love being challenged by them. Although I, you know, I was raised under your leadership, I was never a choir director.
Speaker 1:I mean, I learned from you, right, I'm not a professional I didn't tell him to say that I was not going to refer to our relationship, but go ahead.
Speaker 9:I'll say, I'll say, this man was my choir director for a long, long time, um, and but I wasn't a professional, I'm not a professional, um, and so this is something I actually had to teach myself. And I actually, when I first implemented the choir, I had to, like think about those days that, you know, I was in choir rehearsal with you. I was like, how did greg do this? You know how did he do that? And I just kind of found my own way. You know, it wasn't exactly the way you did it, but it seems to be working, so yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:So you ended up on the front line. I hear what was that like because you're used to being in the choir tucked in the back behind. You know, with the team which is support, and support is necessary. You ended up on the front. You're growing. What's that like?
Speaker 8:Yes, I remember the first time I did that was pre-pandemic and it was a lot of fear Because that was my very first time. But last Sunday was different. I was still fearful, but not as much. I was able to let free a little bit, okay.
Speaker 4:And did you lead or did you just?
Speaker 1:support.
Speaker 8:Yes, okay, now I hear an accent.
Speaker 1:Where are you from?
Speaker 8:I'm from Haiti. From Haiti.
Speaker 1:Where are you from, Jennifer?
Speaker 7:I was born in the US. My family's from Ghana, ghana.
Speaker 1:Keely.
Speaker 7:Brooklyn.
Speaker 1:New.
Speaker 4:York USA.
Speaker 1:Brooklyn, usa. Brooklyn's a country by the way it is. It's a country by the way it is. It's a whole different country.
Speaker 5:From the Bronx, but I'm Puerto Rican-Sominican, okay.
Speaker 1:Ed, brooklyn, brooklyn, usa, south Yonkers, south Yonkers, st Thomas, st Thomas, bronx. Okay, so we've got several cultures here, which is another beautiful thing. We've got at least four cultures, four or five different cultures here, you know, and as Puerto or Dominican did, you say Puerto Rican, and then Haitian. No, you're Haitian. You're Ghana, no, you're Ghana.
Speaker 3:All right, somewhere around there All right Now.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you Chris has Hispanic blood. He's Spanish, whoa, what is it? Puerto Rican? Has he ever gone Latin on you guys in the middle of worship? Oh, what did you think I was going to say?
Speaker 11:When you said has he gone Latin? For a minute I thought you were going to say have we done Latin? We have some songs that we've sung in English and Spanish. You know bilingual, but I've never actually seen him break out. Okay.
Speaker 1:He's got a little more Bronx in him than Puerto Rican.
Speaker 11:I've seen him break out more in his playing.
Speaker 1:okay, Like he'll put some little chords in there, I'm like so my question then is well, it's the same question, but what would happen with all the culture in this church, because it's pretty diverse? What would happen if you just got a dose of Puerto Rican Holy Spirit and you went into a Montuno, and what would y'all do I mean? How would you respond to that? How could you respond to that? And you went into a Montuno, and what would y'all do I mean? How would you respond to that?
Speaker 7:How could you respond to that? So for me I'm very like when I sing I need to move.
Speaker 1:Well, it's in your DNA.
Speaker 7:So you would probably catch me dancing, taking everybody who has been worshiping, we'd be dancing unto the Lord.
Speaker 1:so that's basically my style, or how I would react to that type of now, with where you're from, what? What's the describe the style, describe the emotion um.
Speaker 7:So where I'm from, um, with ganyan music, the worship is very, very involved, like you're not just singing, but people are dancing, they are letting loose and just worshiping, so it's very much of high life gospel music, and so we got actually little glimpses of that here. We'll sing like there's no one like Jesus, and I know it's been translated in so many different dialects over time, and so that's more of the style in which Gunyan worship music is aligned with, and Haitian.
Speaker 8:It's similar. Yeah, I probably react by dancing too. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:I think, if I heard it, I would start singing in Spanish.
Speaker 8:It's like when someone speaks to me in Spanish.
Speaker 5:I automatically answer back in Spanish.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 5:I think if he started playing in Spanish, spanish, I automatically answer back in Spanish. I think if you started playing in Spanish, I'd start singing in Spanish, like wait a second.
Speaker 1:What would that be like, though, at Grace Point?
Speaker 5:crazy.
Speaker 1:They love that stuff, they'll start cause I've been here and I saw people run around and I was like, okay, they're running around the sanctuary and I'm not. That wasn't foreign to me, I just didn't expect it to happen, that's my wife starting a conga line.
Speaker 1:Oh it was your wife. Was that your wife? Was that really your wife? Yes, wow, you told her. I said thank you. No, it didn't surprise me, because I've been in services like that where that's happened. I just didn't expect it to happen at Grace Point that particular hour, and it was just so freeing to know that there's a freedom here. That's not because it's not pretentious, it's not something that was contrived. It was a genuine outbreak of joy and an expression of God. Thank you.
Speaker 6:There was one service I forget which one it was, but the spirit was obviously flowing and you could see Pastor Sal was waiting in the back. He had to come out and say something and every time he tried the music would just kick up again. And he tried it like three times Like he'd come out and he's like and I saw him do this, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to break this up with an announcement. You know he shouldn't.
Speaker 6:He shouldn't Some of the best services are when the worship goes way longer than it was supposed to but because there's a reason for it. Right, don't stop at midway.
Speaker 1:It's genuine. Yeah, if it's genuine, you'll know. You know it's not it's not.
Speaker 6:Look at his face.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, thanks, guys. Thanks so much for giving me your time. Let me just ask the last question, and then we'll let you guys get into your rehearsal, because you're going to rehearse tonight. If there was one thing that you walked away with, uh, whenever you guys were are together as a choir what would be that one thing?
Speaker 5:my peace peace yeah, I love coming to practice for choir and I love singing on the sundays. When I leave, I feel like I've just emptied everything out and I've just filled myself up with enough energy to head for the whole week. I mean, I feel like that on Sundays in general, but it's different when we're singing.
Speaker 10:Yeah, Awesome Ed, it energizes me. I mean I come home after rehearsal and my wife says quiet down, quiet down.
Speaker 8:I'm like zooming, you know.
Speaker 4:All right, anybody else? Rehearsal, and my wife says quiet down, quiet down. I'm like zooming, you know. All right anybody else? Yes, hi, my name is reggie, I think. For me since um being in a choir since a child and matured from it, I've been in and out of the country as well with secular bands. But it's different when it's the choir right. And for me, my big takeaway is when you come down, even just one person in the church tells you I love how you guys sing. You know how I was blessed. Even just one person, it's not actually just one, several people said that they were blessed. For me, it's just my heart is very overwhelming, you know at that time. And like what you said, when you sing with a choir, as soon as I close my eyes, I know my tears come down. People might say, oh my gosh, is she hurting again? No, my eyes, I know my tears come down. People might say, oh my gosh, is she hurting again?
Speaker 4:No, it's just the overwhelming feeling of joy and peace, like the Colossians was saying, and I always seek for that righteousness, like Matthew was saying in 633. So yes one person being blessed is just the heavens opens up.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, anybody else?
Speaker 11:Although I don't come home like talkative Ed, I really really become energized as I'm driving back home. I can still feel the energy, I can still feel it like a buzz, and what it does for me is, as I'm pouring out, I'm actually being poured into and so I'm actually being renewed and refreshed as I give the gift that God has given back to him. Amen.
Speaker 1:Chris I know his takeaway is going to be, man that they're even learning the songs. For goodness sake.
Speaker 9:No, I mean, my biggest takeaway is, like you know, I always tell this to people, especially the leadership here at the church I love choir Sundays because we do second and fourth Sundays. That's choir Sundays. It's like you have an army around you and it's like, man, I'm ready to I'll go to war with these guys and I'm ready and I know we're winning. So yeah, that's my takeaway. It's just a big army surrounded me beautiful.
Speaker 1:Each one will bring something and receive something unique when we come together, lift our voices and praise god in choir. A big thank you to chris cruz and the choir and worship team of grace point gospel fellowship in new city, new york. If you're looking for a church home that has a choir, check out grace point. I'm sure pastor daniel will be glad to have you. Now don't forget to like, share and send us your comments about the podcast TheChoirRoom at MetroMusic-Artscom. And remember, if ever we put the messenger before the message, we have failed to present an unblemished gospel. I'm Greg Thomas. Join us again right here next week in the Choir Room.
