The Choir Room Podcast
This podcast exists to promote and encourage two long-time traditions in our society that seem to be dwindling…The Choir and Corporate Singing. We hope to revive the excitement and joy experienced with singing in a choir, as well as inform and educate the listener on all things singing, and all things choir related.
A weekly podcast featuring discussion and interviews with choir directors, choir members, and other guests representing church choirs, college and university choirs, community choirs, show and theatre choirs, composer of choir music, and other.
Segments include tips and instruction from skilled and professional disciplines within the choir community covering topics such as choir culture and community, choir directing, vocal training, ear training, sight reading, and more. A monthly virtual live audience episode allows the listener to engage with hosts and guests during instructional and Q&A segments via the live recording, chat, email, on various social media platforms.
A production of Metromusic & Arts, Inc.
- www.metromusic-arts.com
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The Choir Room Podcast
Hymns of Praise and Choir Mastery Cultivating a Transformative Singing Experience
As we gather in the Choir Room this Easter, a time of reflection and rejoicing unfolds through the power of choral music. The episode kicks off with a stirring reminder of Christ's sacrifice, captured in Kurt Carr's poignant composition, performed remotely during the 2020 pandemic by Greg Thomas and Misty Quinn, and we're transported through the rich history of Charles Wesley's "Christ the Lord is Risen Today." Co-host Dorian walks us through this hymn's deep scriptural roots, inviting both heavenly and earthly voices to celebrate the resurrection. It's a moment that intertwines personal hope with the timeless victory over death, offering a soul-stirring message that resonates with every note.
Navigating the intricate art of choir direction, we open up about the essential techniques for achieving that perfect vocal blend between meek singers and strong singers...where strength meets softness. Together with Mietta Stancil-Farrar and Coleman Smart, we delve into the roles of physicality and confidence. We share our personal thoughts and secrets to coaxing out stronger performances, all while preserving the unique vocal identities of each member. This is not just about hitting the right notes; it's about the collective journey towards harmonious excellence.
Closing on a note of community, Greg and Coleman emphasize the importance of stewardship and morale in leading a choir. It's about more than just guiding voices; it's about nurturing the spirit of our singers and ensuring the gospel's message remains paramount. As we explore the dilemmas faced by choir directors and navigate rehearsal atmospheres, we offer strategies for fostering a transformative experience. Whether you're a choir aficionado or just love the art of music, your thoughts are valuable to us. Join our conversation by reaching out on the Choir Room Facebook page or through email, and let's continue this journey together in the next episode.
Perpetuating and Promoting the Christian and Positive Idea Through the Medium of Music and Other Arts.
Welcome to the Choir Room. This is episode 37 of the Choir Room Podcast.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Choir.
Speaker 1:Room. I'm Greg Thomas, your host, and I am joined by my co-hosts, dorian Johnson Welcome to the Choir Room Mieta Stanza-Farrar and who we like to call the fourth wheel, coleman Smart. This podcast exists to promote and encourage to long time traditions in our society that seem to be dwindling away, and that is choir and corporate singing. We hope to revive the excitement and joy experience with singing in a choir, as well as inform and educate the listener on all things singing and all things choir. This podcast is a production of Metro Music and Arts, whose purpose is to perpetuate and promote the Christian and positive idea through the medium of music and other arts. If you haven't done so already, we ask that you subscribe to this podcast by writing the word subscribe in the subject field of an email and sending that to the choir room at metromusic-artscom. And then do us a really big favor like the podcast, send us your comments and then share with a friend or family member or colleague and tell them you're in the Choir Room.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Choir Room.
Speaker 1:Appropriate for this Easter week, where Christians all over the world are acknowledging Holy Week and, of course, resurrection Sunday, or as it is commonly known as Easter Sunday. I was reminded the other day of this song that we recorded during the shutdown of 2020. I'm in one location. My dear friend Misty Quinn is in another location, a song written by Kurt Carr and that we've done many, many times over the years. It was so necessary during the pandemic, as we were all separated from each other. You probably know how difficult it can be to record a song that is rubato in its timing and tempo, but yet we managed to pull it off. Now. We've shared it on this podcast before and we thought we'd share it again during this Easter week. Here's Misty Quinn and yours truly in two different locations in 2020.
Speaker 4:The shed blood of Christ still has miraculous power. We can't forget God's sacrifice. He saved this world with his son's life. God must have agonized and grieved to watch his child suffer and bleed, but he knew the blood that his son spilled there Would save the world from her despair, so that two thousand years ago God put his power in the throne and the sin of the world could not pollute it.
Speaker 3:Seers at time could not delude it. Jesus still washes, the blood still cleanses. After all these years, the blood still has miraculous power.
Speaker 4:Miraculous power. So if you need healing for your life, you've tossed and turned and prayed all night because the doctor said to you that there was nothing he could do. My friend, no matter how you feel, keep saying by his stripes, I'm healed. That's when the blood will take control.
Speaker 2:Let his healing virtues flow.
Speaker 3:Jesus, the Lord, is covering you Every sickness, demon devil has to move, still washes. Thank God, the blood still cleanses. After all these years, the blood still has miraculous power.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the choir.
Speaker 1:Dorian has our Easter hymn for this week. Thanks, Greg.
Speaker 5:This week's hymn of the week is Christ, the Lord is Risen Today. This hymn was written by Charles Wesley in 1739, which is the year after his conversion, and was one of the over 6,500 hymns that he is credited with writing. After each line of the over 6,500 hymns that he is credited with writing, after each line of the hymn, there is a tag that says Alleluia, and this tag was actually added by an unknown author in the 19th century, probably to fit the commonly used hymn tune that this hymn is sung to, which is called Easter Hymn. One might call this hymn the original Matthew 28, which is based on Matthew 28, verses 1 through 10. But all throughout the hymn there is an underlying reference to the very specific reference that we see in verse 3, and that is to 1 Corinthians 15, verse 55, which says O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting? The whole hymn is in present tense, reminding us that Christ being alive is just as true today as it was that first resurrection Sunday.
Speaker 5:This hymn begins with the declaration of Christ, the Lord is risen today. The second line says sons of men and angels, say, reminding us that both men and angels testify to our risen Lord, it calls all to raise your joys and triumphs high, and then to sing ye, heavens and earth reply high. And then to sing ye, heavens and earth, reply. The second verse points us to the vanity that came with the stone and the watch and the seal that sealed in christ in that tomb. It says vain, the stone, the watch, the seal. And it says christ has burnt. Burst the gates of hell. Death in vain forbids his rise. Christ has opened paradise. The third verse points us to our glorious King's living. Forever, as it begins, lives again, our glorious King. And then that reference to 1 Corinthians 15, 55, where O death is now thy sting. Once he died our souls to save, where thy victory, o brave.
Speaker 5:And as Charles Wesley begins to point us from not only the resurrection but to our future hope, we're told in verse 4, so are we now where Christ hath led, following our exalted head, made like him. Like him, we rise ours, the cross, the grave, the skies, reminding us that Christ's death was our death, his being buried in the grave was our being buried and his resurrection is our resurrection. And as we end this glorious hymn, we end once again with praise. Hail the Lord of earth and heaven. Praise to thee by both. Be given Thee we greet triumphant. Now hail the resurrection thou. Now hail the resurrection thou. The one who said I am the resurrection and the life lives forever. And we, as the ones who have received the benefits of his great sacrifice and the justification that comes with his resurrection, do indeed owe him all glory, all honor and all praise, as we remember his glorious resurrection all around the world.
Speaker 1:Thanks, dorian. Always appropriate and certainly, uh, particularly appropriate for this easter week. Now mietta has our crq thanks, greg.
Speaker 6:Here we are this week with our crq, and the CRQ this evening is what do you do with singers that won't sing out? What do you do with singers that won't sing out? Well, I'll start it off briefly. I thought about this question and I'm like Coleman now. And I'm like Coleman now. Context is everything.
Speaker 7:I've made an impression on you guys.
Speaker 1:Yes, a lasting impression. We're going to run that context being into the ground Right.
Speaker 6:I love it, though. I do love it, and I thought about it and I didn't want whoever submitted this question to think that when you sing out or the louder you sing, the more effective you are, and that is just false. I have this saying that I've had for years now in my rehearsals that sing what you weigh. I might have made this statement sometime before Sing what you weigh.
Speaker 1:I heard that the first time I heard it and I thought well, just kind of sit with that for a minute.
Speaker 6:And I would often say to the women if you, if you weigh 220 pounds, I need you to sing like you are 220 pounds.
Speaker 6:Before we leave any service, I need them to have to renovate the back wall. That's what I want. I want the girth, I want the volume, I want all of that. Now there are songs that will require that, but not every song requires that. So I wanted to preface this by saying that just because you sing loud doesn't necessarily mean that you're very effective in doing so.
Speaker 6:Um, when you, when you have singers that are a little lighter in vote in their vocal, um, the one mistake we often make, we we put everyone in these little categories. So we'll put all the lighter singer ones in one place, all the heavier one, heavy singing ones in one place, like you would usually put the heavier singer ones or the louder signal singing ones in the front row and then you'll put the softer singers behind them and hopefully it'll, you know, balance out, but it really doesn't. And hopefully it'll you know, balance out, but it really doesn't. I found that the best way to do that is to mix it, and so if you have the heavier singers, the singers with the most volume, mix them in with the lighter single ones. It eventually it balances out better instead of separating them that we have. I've done. I've even done it that way. Then I sing it loud. Put them behind you. I need the big, the great singers, the loudest singers up front, and I had to realize that that was just not the most effective way to do it. You needed to put the lighter voice next to the louder voice, and what happens is the more you do that, you will find that there was a. There's a very good balance of sound when you do that, because usually the louder voice will kind of balance out.
Speaker 6:I am and I will say this, I am a um, a power singer. I'm a power singer. I, I love the lighter voice. I, I like to sing a little lighter, but for some reason it always sounds like I'm eating macaroni and cheese and collard greens, right, so it does it just and I know it it always sounds like there's gravy at the end of that. I know it is, but and I would love to do that and I found studio work controls that for me, live singing is different. Studio keeps that under control, so I've learned to balance myself as it relates to that. So it's not always the best thing just because you have the louder voice. So please, listeners, please don't think well. They're not singing properly if they're not singing out, or it's not effective if they're not singing out. That is so far from the truth. The best way to get the best sound, I believe mix it in.
Speaker 7:Mix the louder with the softer you know throughout the entire choir and throughout the entire sections of the choir. So, fellas, what say you? Well, mia, I'd love to know, before moving on from your comments, if you have somebody in the choir because you know, nine times out of 10, you know, gospel music requires some guts to it, right? If someone walked up into your choir, who? They were just quiet as a mouse and you're like come on, I got to get some guts out of you. Come on, what would you do, I mean, other than mixing them in there? How would you get a bigger sound out of them? I'm curious to know for a reason, because I'd love to use that knowledge myself. No, I have other comments.
Speaker 5:But all of you guys, y'all, y'all, I don't know what?
Speaker 7:what do you say?
Speaker 6:well, you know, it's I. I'm kind of hands-on, I really am, I'm kind of hands-on. So I've I've been in contact with not very many but a few lighter voices and I'll get next to them, you know, I'll let them sing and then I will press on their stomach, press on them a little bit, you know you're a man. Don't just walk up to folks.
Speaker 6:You got to be careful about that, but I will. I will cause, you know, ask them sing this and then, and the more I press in a little bit, it forces them to push out more. It pushes out more. And um, I had, I used to have a young lady who was she no longer sings with me soprano. She had an excellent soprano voice and I love putting her next to my sister who has a lighter voice. Cindy um has lighter voice. I like putting her next to her because it forced Cindy to sing a little more.
Speaker 6:You know so when I so that's what I mean by mixing them. You put them next to somebody who really does have that confidence and don't mind singing out, and you'll be surprised that they will start to adapt and start to work their way. Ok, I can do this. I just got to be confident, because that's that's what most of it is. It's about confidence. Some people don't think that I'm I'm not confident enough to do that, when in fact you really are. You know, you really are, you know, and that's that's one that's a simple way for me to get what I need out of it.
Speaker 7:It always depends on where I am, how much I have to beg people for their sound. There have been some places where I just walk right in these folks Pentecostal they're like literally the walls are shaking when they start singing. And sometimes when I walk into other settings it's like you gotta be like all right now, come on, come on, help me now. But that's what it takes. Sometimes it takes the director being clear about what you need. So sometimes when I'm directing I'll make jokes about myself being like what's his name from Sesame Street that bangs an animal? Not Sesame Street, the Muppets, the.
Speaker 5:Muppets, one of those Muppets?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd be like animal from the Muppets like coming at the choir like come on, y'all sing, let's go.
Speaker 7:Come on so sometimes it's like that, and if they like start, I wish I could just video you into one of my choir rehearsals sometimes, because it makes more sense to see it than me talking about it. But but if they start singing, I'll be like hold up, hold up. You know, come on now. Y'all know what I'm looking for. Don't make me beg. And I'll say let's try that again, and then usually they'll bring it the second time around around.
Speaker 7:But I also work with students a lot who tend to be more shy about singing out like that, just because they're still discovering their voice. Some of them it's just a self-confidence issue and they're trying to figure out that kind of thing. Well, sometimes I'll do this exercise with them about singing from your core and I'll say like hey you know, if you're walking down the street and somebody like takes your mom's purse or something, you're not gonna be like hey, hey, give that back.
Speaker 5:And I said how are you going to do?
Speaker 7:that and I'll like point to the diaphragm, the core, and I'll be like you're going to say, hey, you know, like that kind of thing. I'm like sometimes you know you got to core and you know not singing from your throat and proper breathing and breath support and that kind of thing. But it just kind of depends on the singer that you're working with why they sing lightly. If it's, if it's confidence, build their confidence. If they don't know how, teach them how. If, if, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 7:So what do you guys say? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was. It was interesting sort of hearing the question and then some of the responses, because there there does come a time, and usually it's with the section, and then some of the responses, because there there does come a time, and usually it's with the section, and and it you can reach a point during a rehearsal where you know that, like the section's being lazy yeah and you, and you just gotta tell them like, okay, get out of your seats and stand up right, because you need.
Speaker 1:It's wednesday or thursday and it's yeah, it's already a long week, you know yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 5:But that's just again about about knowing the people and knowing, like, the choir as well, and and and I think that's the beauty of choral singing is that you aren't going to have, um, say, a hundred people up there and all of them able to produce the same volume, or something like that. I mean, I, I'm an opera buff and so I think of like, like, uh, choruses that sing in the opera you couldn't have like a hundred of the main people singing because that choir would be so loud, can?
Speaker 1:you imagine the vibrato? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5:I mean, and so it's like there are people who are suited for for a chorus and for choir, and so it takes all kinds. So we we have to just be careful that that just because someone doesn't sing as powerfully as someone else, um they they aren't saying exerting as much energy or giving as much effort.
Speaker 1:but if we work with folks long enough, we can know if they're not, and address that and address that so yeah, I think, uh, obviously I agree with all of you. Yeah, I think obviously I agree with all of you, and I think there's so many facets to the answer for this question. I don't think there's one answer because I'm going to try and find a synonym for context, but I think you know what I mean. It depends on the situation, the scenario in which you're asking people to sing loud and then again, like Dorian said, some people's voices are just naturally soft. To me, it's more important that they're on pitch and soft or loud, so you can be loud and be pitchy, and then we've got a different kind of problem, and then we've got a different kind of problem. So I'd rather you be on pitch and your timing be well and I can work with the volume and, like Dorian said, we mix you or, like Mietta said, we can then mix you in the choir and that person still then needs to be able to. We have the responsibility of making sure that they still feel like they are an asset to the overall singing aggregation. Right, not because their voice is as loud as the next person, but they do contribute as a body. They do contribute with pitch.
Speaker 1:The person who's loud may need to stand to the person who's on pitch and not as loud, because then they make their praise or their worship or their singing comparable to the person next to them. So that's a key thing that I like to teach all the time is that when you're in choir, you have to make your singing comparable to the overall sound of the choir. The choir director's responsibility is to look for that, so if he hears an alto sticking out over there, she can be blowing it away, man, and just be really on fire. So if he hears an alto sticking out over there, she can be blowing it away, man, and just be really on fire. But it's still his or her responsibility to make sure that they understand your singing is not comparable to the overall sound, and so, as a choir director, this is what we're looking for, so we have to be looking for that necessary blend from the softer singers and the louder singers. Part of that qualification, then, is making sure that we are sensitive to all of those things.
Speaker 1:The person who sings soft is not just soft, but perhaps they're on pitch, but if they're not on pitch, thank God that they're soft and work with that, and if they are loud and they're pitchy, then you got to stand them around, people who hold the pitch, and so I think it's a combination of things. How do you deal with singers who won't sing out? I think it depends on your situation, but I always say, at the end of the day, you deal with everybody with gentle hands gentle hands, absolutely.
Speaker 6:And it's funny because you're talking about a softer singer singing out. Oftentimes I find myself challenged with the louder singer singing softer, so they don't know how to pull it.
Speaker 2:They don't know how to yeah.
Speaker 5:That requires a lot of control, that requires skill. That requires a lot of control.
Speaker 6:That requires skill. That's a lot of control and I find that because in our churches and I have to say that in our Black churches in particular we were taught and trained in our music departments just sing out, We'll work with it, you know we'll figure it out in the end, you know we'll come in, we'll figure it out. Whenever the end, you know we'll come in, we'll figure out whatever's needed but that was before everybody was recording right and zooming in right they found out like uh-oh we have a problem.
Speaker 6:So now we have singers who were trained to do it that way and now we're in an era or a space where we don't need as much and they find it difficult to pull some of that back, and you constantly have to do things like you know, bring it down.
Speaker 1:You know, james Cleveland Right right and all the Cleveland moves.
Speaker 6:You know have to do stuff like that. So that is becoming more of a challenge these days that I'm listening to than the softer, trying to sing louder or getting the softer. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, all the more reason to get our choirs singing hymns in the church, because then there you have to have a little more control.
Speaker 1:The hymns are not always blurted out, so you start getting into some more hymns and choruses and some more spirituals. Perhaps where the dynamics are big See gospel choir songs the dynamics are just, they're just big. You know, every now and then you either have soft or you have loud. There's nothing in between for the most part. But when you get to hymns and you start talking four and part, you know three and four part harmonies and you get into some of the spirituals that require those vocal dynamics. So you start, even if you don't sing them in your church or in your services or in your events.
Speaker 1:Start doing them in rehearsals, because that's a very good way to start exercising and uh your choir and training your choir and greg, that's such a good idea that I've been doing that lately myself.
Speaker 7:I started with because y'all know I've been building a choir at my church and everything. I started with the heavy stuff, like the singing hard and that kind of thing. Well, about a month ago I said, okay, I've been working with you guys on this and singing out and that kind of thing. Now it's time to take all of that and bring it in and put some polish on it and really develop our blend, develop our listening to one another, our sound, all of that. So I pulled I don't know if y'all know this song, but I pulled out the majesty and glory of your name. Majesty and glory of your name and it. It has been such an incredible exercise for us because it's on the total opposite end of the spectrum, but it's making us better in those bigger moments too, because we're actually concerned about blend and not just like going for broke and not listening to each other. But yes, yes, yes, I agree it helps you with your control and blend and all of that. Yes, so good.
Speaker 6:It's good exercise for the choir director team. It is, and that's that's probably something that I should have done earlier on is done for hymns to to do that. But we didn't. We didn't, I didn't start that way. I just started out with just a whole bunch of hollering and screaming. And here we are. Listen Greg knows my voice. He's known my voice for decades. He knows what it's like.
Speaker 1:It's naturally big, it's big.
Speaker 1:He's too kind well, I think, at the end of the day, what we're saying is that, uh, to deal, if you, if you are looking, and I'm assuming, let me just do this real quick. My assumption was that this was from a choir director. How do you deal with singers that won't sing out Because choir members are not supposed to deal with that? That's the choir director's responsibility. So my assumption and if you're not a choir director, then you deal with it by going to your choir director. That's how you deal with it.
Speaker 1:But for that choir director, who may be new at it or who may be just maybe, this is just not something that he or she has experienced before. We gave you a plethora of options. You've got to approach it with gentle hands and find out what it is that makes this person sing soft. Is it the natural timbre of their voice or is it a confidence issue? Are they afraid? Or maybe they're just looking for an opportunity to get a one-on-one with you and then show you what they really mean of you know, there's that All right.
Speaker 2:I like it either way. There's no one. There's no one like Jesus. There's no one. There's no one like him. There's no one. There's no one like Jesus. There's no one. There's no one like Him. There's no one. There's no one like Jesus. There's no one. There's no one like Him. There's no one. There's no one like Jesus. There's no one. There's no one like Him. There's no one. There's no one like Jesus. There's no one. There's no one like Him.
Speaker 2:I walked around here, there, I searched around here, there, I turned around here. There, there's no one. There's no one like Him. There's no one. There's no one like Him. There's no one. There's no one like Jesus. There's no one. There's no one like Him. There's no one. There's no one like Jesus. There's no one. There's no one like Him. I walked around here, there, I searched around here, there, I turned around here. There, there's no one. There's no one like him. I walked around here, there, I searched around here and there, there's no. Here, there, I searched around here, there, I turned around here and there, there's no one.
Speaker 1:There's no one like him. All right, let's get our second CRQ in.
Speaker 6:In what ways can we make rehearsal fun and not always so businesslike? What ways can we make rehearsal fun and not so businesslike?
Speaker 7:Confetti cannons.
Speaker 1:Smoke machines, all of that. I'm just curious. I'm just curious, what makes rehearsal business like? Or do they mean like, hey, let's just take care of business, let's, let's get the songs learned. You know what I mean.
Speaker 6:Or this is an interesting question because I've been on the other end of this question like, come to rehearsals and, um, all of a sudden, they wanted, they want to take care of business, business matters like dues. I mean, if you if you're still doing that, I don't know would actually do that right? I know norian is like are you kidding me? It used to happen.
Speaker 2:But it used to happen.
Speaker 6:Oh yeah, I know, you know dues, or?
Speaker 1:How do you think they pay for those robes?
Speaker 6:You know dues perhaps. Maybe they talk about stuff like oh gosh, what you got appointments that we need to go on in terms of elections?
Speaker 7:Oh not, not in my choir.
Speaker 1:Choir choir president, choir choir president, choir vice president choir.
Speaker 7:Ain't no election, Treasurer choir, chaplain choir democracy.
Speaker 1:This was before appointments.
Speaker 7:This is a theocracy right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 6:This question was almost very familiar to me. There were times where I've actually sat in those kind of choir rehearsals where those things were talked about or people wanted to air grievances. You know, you know that, you know stuff like that. So I got this question. To a degree I understand it a little bit. You guys probably don't have a clue as to what this question is all about, but I really got this one and I would say don't do business in choir rehearsals Easy, just leave that for an actual business meeting. Because I believe when it comes to choir rehearsal, you need to come and do choir rehearsal things like singing and you know getting your parts together and do things like that. Now I make it fun because sometimes the choir will come to rehearsal thinking that we're having rehearsal and I'll switch up and say, nope, we're not going to have rehearsal, we're just going to have, we're going to talk to each other. Today.
Speaker 6:Fellowship, Just some fellowship you know, and my sister would love that because she brings a cup of coffee to every choir rehearsal. And my sister would love that because she brings a cup of coffee to every choir rehearsal. She comes in with her coffee, ready to socialize. And then there's some time where I have done that and, like today, we're not going to do any singing tonight, we're just going to y'all, just let me have it, let me know how you're feeling, because sometimes you need to talk to them a little bit to see how their day is and how their lives are going, for that matter. Because if you're, if you're together with a group of people for an extensive time in years and things of that nature, you get to know each other on a real personal level after a while. And sometimes they don't really have the the vocal ability to do anything, but they just want to just talk, you know, and and and just laugh a little bit because the day had been kind of heavy, you know, and so that just makes people feel a little more at ease about coming.
Speaker 6:It's not always singing, you know. Your choir director, whoever the leaders are, are concerned about you. Overall your total being and I found that to be pretty good. It's been effective. It worked for me. What say you?
Speaker 5:that's interesting. I I didn't even take the business me either of it that way, I mean I, I thought I thought they were saying oh, we just come in and rehearse and and and that's and that's it.
Speaker 5:And because I can't ever think of any choir context that I've been in whether it was like the high school choir, church choir or being like helping to run the rehearsal or whatever where it wasn't totally business. You know, there was like some laughter involved. I mean it wasn't something where everyone just came in and we pounded out notes and parts and everything else. So I don't know, I mean, I, I maybe it is that that whole business aspect that they're talking about that, because I, yeah, that's, and that was part of the reason why I found this question like hard to hard to understand, because I mean, yes, you do have to come in and you do have to do a measure of singing and and going over things and going over parts, and that takes time. But I always found that there was a certain measure of laughter and not complete business, like nature to even the most demanding ones.
Speaker 6:There's some rehearsals I've been in that were quite sterile in business life. You know, yeah, it's like wow, this is it, okay, okay.
Speaker 5:Was that a professional choir or was that? No, it wasn't.
Speaker 4:It was a church choir, church choir.
Speaker 6:And I'm sitting there like okay, all right, well, well, they're gonna sing these notes and we're out of here, we're done. No laughter or anything oh wow, yeah, I mean I've I wonder, though.
Speaker 1:I wonder if we're not missing something else here.
Speaker 1:I think so because, again, we all and I say I think I this every week we are coming from a church choir perspective for the most part, but maybe this question didn't come from a church choir person. Maybe it came from somebody who's in a professional choir or who's in a concert hall choir or something, and in my experience, it's business. Oh yeah, because they don't have the fellowship as we would have in the church. They don't have the relationships with each other as we would have in the church. Again and I shared this with you in the podcast several months ago is that that's business for them. These are professional singers.
Speaker 1:They come in to do their thing, so the choir director or the choir master is all about getting these songs learned. There's a deadline, let's get them learned. Let's make sure your dynamics are right, your words are right, your pronunciation is correct and that's all they do. They pay you to come and learn this music and get it perfect, because now we have to sync you up with the orchestra later and we have no time for laughter. So they may be coming from that perspective. However, like Mietta, I've been on the other side as well and I've seen the church business choir meetings as well, and I'm not even going to rehash it, she said it all. But just know that there are situations where traditional, traditional church situations where choirs have choir business meetings and I think that's been a large problem with that's contributed to a lot of what church choir as we know it has you know, has become it's.
Speaker 1:It's in a lot of circles, has become an island unto itself. It's a church within the church, and that's because they get to have meetings. Yeah right, that's really come from under the leadership of the church, ironically, but that's a whole nother subject. That's a whole nother CRQ right there, that I think, rehearsals, choir people who especially volunteers they need to be able to come to rehearsal and leave saying it was good to have been there.
Speaker 1:That's part of our responsibility to make sure that they're not just giving their time. They're getting off subways and buses and they're coming from work and they're thinking about getting dinner ready or they've outsourced dinner to some other, somebody else, so that they could be in rehearsal. We, I think we have a responsibility as choir directors to show them that, hey, we're going to make the best use of your time, we're going to maximize your time. Yes, we're going to be just as concerned with your physical, spiritual, mental, financial, relational well-being. But we're also going to get some singing done and you're going to get a release, and sometimes rehearsal is just singing and it's not learning anything new.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we're just going over songs because it's a heavy night. People just came in heavy songs. Because it's a heavy night, people just came in heavy and, mieta, I think you hit on it. We have to be sensitive enough to know that what's happening in that moment, what's happening with this group in this moment, and are we sensitive enough that we can put our finger on the pulse I like to call it a pulse check and put our finger on the pulse of what's happening with the group tonight and ask God to show us what they need. You know, do they need me pounding them about certain notes, and you know addiction and articulation or do they need just a plethora of songs, just a concert?
Speaker 1:in their own hearts tonight where we just sing 15 songs and then we're out of here we're not learning anything, but then we're out. See, to me that's leaving saying it was good to have been here, and I think every choir member needs that experience to say that it was good to have been here. Fun, yes, sometimes it may be fun. Sometimes you may do a I don't know a choir rehearsal name, that tune you know, just start playing a few bars of a song and see what is it. You know, cause that also that's teaching. At the same time, especially when you you know, if you do choir the way I do it, they never know what they're going to sing at any given point. So we don't get, I don't send them a list, you know for for.
Speaker 1:Sunday this week, sunday I'm going to play and when I start playing you're supposed to know that introduction and get to a mic really fast Period, because that sharpens them and that keeps them locked into the service as well, locked into what's happening, that they know the music just as much as they know the notes and the diction, how to rock and sway and all that stuff. They know the music as well.
Speaker 7:Yeah, well, I can say that I'm. I've never been in a church choir business meeting and I think I'm glad for that. So because of that, I mean, my contextual background with choir is completely different, so I interpreted the question differently.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, did you just switch up the word contextual? Yeah, my contextual background.
Speaker 7:I did.
Speaker 5:I did. I've got to use a different phrase every now and then I heard it.
Speaker 2:My contextual experience.
Speaker 7:It's almost like a suffix on that word anyway, so I interpreted it kind of more, like dorian did like uh, people just like coming in banging out the notes. Go home, you know.
Speaker 5:No, no fun here you know, just we're gonna sing sing and go.
Speaker 7:I don't love that set up. For my choir rehearsals I try to start by bringing things together with like worship and then take natural breaks throughout, like about halfway through. I'll give us a break and we'll laugh a little bit. Do some announcements. I'll say something funny. Let them laugh at me, you know like or something.
Speaker 7:I'll get them talking to each other, have like a 90 second, like little thing for them to talk to, you know, just to a break, a natural break, and then at the end we'll wrap up with a devotion, because I always want people to feel like, okay, yeah, we got, we had a productive time, but I also, like Greg said, enjoyed myself and um, and then, from my perspective, I want people to leave um with something of eternal value deposited in their life.
Speaker 7:Um, that it's not just I've told my choir a million times it's not just about the music. The music, uh, is a as a means to an end. Um, I mean told my choir a million times it's not just about the music. The music is a means to an end. I mean, it's a means that we all love and enjoy and that kind of thing. But I just feel like we are good stewards when, like you said, we keep the pulse check on there and we can tell like, okay, do they need a lift right now? Do I need to lift the morale? Do I need, you know, that kind of thing I mean. So basically, yeah, I agree with all of you.
Speaker 1:Well, that is our opinion on those two matters. You can leave your comments and questions for us to add to the CRQ in the coming podcast at the Choir Room Facebook page, or you can send it to thechoirroom at metromusic-artscom. And again, remember, if ever we put the messenger before the message, we have failed to present an unblemished gospel. I'm Greg Thomas. Join us again next week right here in the Choir Room.
